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Author Topic: Ceremonial Magic 101  (Read 7304 times)

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Satyr

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2019, 03:01:54 PM »
With regard to improvising, there's an example i like in "Crystal vision through crystal gazing" from Fr. Achad's record.  His operation was more involved, but I think it demonstrates making a best effort allowed by constraints of space, materials and safety.

That's a great example, I agree.

Satyr

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2019, 03:12:02 PM »
I like to think of it more in terms of vector expressions; the first movement is what sets the direction, and the remainder of the pentagram is the rest of the elements unfolding from that; which MIGHT also be relevant to the sub-quadrants of each elemental tablet, if my reading of them is correct. Or I'm just thinking far too deeply about this.

I am thinking we should walk through an old-fashioned square working, sometime. I think it might demonstrate more concretely how arbitrary these choices are. We usually make them out of some combination of necessity and convenience.

Satyr

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2019, 03:20:50 PM »
Just like switching out the vocalizations in XXV, it brings things together into perfect harmony.

There may well be a problem with the Thelemic Star Ruby. I am unconvinced it should necessarily exhibit the same elemental structure as the original Star Ruby. There needs to be some justification. I don't think one should ordinarily include the NOX signs, either.

Nubti

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2019, 03:51:40 PM »
I would tend to agree... BUT, there are some glaring issues to my eyes.

The NOX signs, I couldn't possibly care less - they're clearly meant to be arbitrary.

The vocalizations in 333 are correct. They're wrong in the ABA version - one is asked to "roar" Θηρίον and "bellow" Hadit. That, to me, makes no sense whatsoever. It's a very arbitrary change, but one that Alick clearly made intentionally.

And sure, I agree that these are, at their very core, entirely arbitrary choices... I do believe they're still of tantamount importance, as entire systems and schools of thought unfold from them very readily. The fact that this is even a point of contention shows that understanding *why* these choices were made helps us understand the mechanics and values involved in the derived systems.

Satyr

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2019, 07:43:38 PM »
The NOX signs, I couldn't possibly care less - they're clearly meant to be arbitrary.

Um…okay. Their presence makes sense in 333, at least it does to me. Not so much in MTP.

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The vocalizations in 333 are correct.

Seem to be, yes. Fire, water, air, earth, widdershins, starting in the east.

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They're wrong in the ABA version - one is asked to "roar" Θηρίον and "bellow" Hadit.

Looks to me like he has swapped water and air, north and west. There's precedent for that.

Nubti

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2019, 08:54:35 AM »
Uh... Fire and Earth. Roar -> Leo -> Fire. Bellow -> Taurus -> Earth.

Hadit is, as I understand it, represented in Teth, Lust.

Therion OTOH is projected from Chokmah... into the Hierophant. (Also notice the "sign of Vir" - The All Father, is the sign of Taurus)

It's rather inconsistent in this way.

As for Air/ Water swappage... those are Nuit and Babalon. Not quite sure what you're indicating here.

Satyr

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2019, 03:30:11 PM »
Therion OTOH is projected from Chokmah...

The Thelemic Ruby doesn't reach across the abyss, I don't think. The Beast and his Scarlet Woman are not Chokmah and Binah. They're at most reflections.

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(Also notice the "sign of Vir" - The All Father, is the sign of Taurus)

Vir and the rest of the NOX gestures are grade signs. There's a natural order to them. See Eshelman for details.

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As for Air/ Water swappage... those are Nuit and Babalon. Not quite sure what you're indicating here.

They swapped west and north, seems like. The LRP is about direction. The elements are secondary attributions.

The same sort of swap takes place in the Golden Dawn's Neophyte ritual. We have fire in the south, as one might expect, but water in the north. And Hiereus, stationed in the west, is dressed in the black of earth, where we should expect the blue of water (See Regardie, The Golden Dawn, Vol I, pp 116-7, et seq).

I have always felt there was something slap-dash about the Thelemic Ruby, like it was half-heartedly thrown together. The 25th chapter of 333 doesn't feel that way at all.

Consequently, I suspect it's best to use the LRP unless there is a definite reason not to. This may change, with experience, and should. But deep familiarity with the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram should definitely come first.

Nubti

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2019, 04:07:15 PM »
Definitely agreed. That said, I don't remember the last time I did the LBRP or "Thelemic" Ruby. I've been doing the 333 version for at least 3 years now, with MAYBE one or two LBRP's before opening the Aethyrs, but even that I'm not sure of, and I'd need to check.

Satyr

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2019, 08:36:32 PM »
That said, I don't remember the last time I did the LBRP or "Thelemic" Ruby.

Because symbols matter, the different banishings are not necessarily interchangeable. If I were working with the elements below the abyss, I would probably use the regular LRP.

The Star Ruby in 333 is explicitly for “Babes of the Abyss”. Instead of centering you in the LVX from Tiphareth you are assumed to be in the “Night of Pan”.

Nubti

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2019, 11:19:25 PM »
Given the kinds of experiences I've had through life, I'm thinking I've been at least dipping my toes in that for years now. Of course, it might very well be that I completely don't understand what that means. But, I'll take my chances.

paragate

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2019, 09:58:08 PM »
A few months ago I stopped using the Star Ruby at all in favor of the LBRP. What was pretty instructional for me was using both before experimenting with psychedelics, once with 333 Ruby and LSD and with the LBRP and the same. The SR trip was dominated by Madhyamaka-type denial and wordless revelations, which helped me interpret 333 but had no real practical gains, and it will be a long time before I can determine if anything I wrote in my notebook during that trip is worth anything. For me, now, it really isn't. I also had an experience approaching selflessness. The LBRP worked much more like a banishing, and my thoughts were not fragmented (at least, in the same way), I was able to read Holy Books and I didn't lose my sense of self at any point.

After that, I would never use that Star Ruby when I need the LBRP. I haven't experimented with the Therion-Nuit SR yet.

Satyr

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2019, 03:42:40 PM »
The SR trip was dominated by Madhyamaka-type denial and wordless revelations, which helped me interpret 333 but had no real practical gains, and it will be a long time before I can determine if anything I wrote in my notebook during that trip is worth anything. For me, now, it really isn't.

This is the result I should expect. 333 is suggestive to all grades, but is going to be most useful to it's target audience. Most people don't really want to be in that audience.

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The LBRP worked much more like a banishing, and my thoughts were not fragmented (at least, in the same way), I was able to read Holy Books and I didn't lose my sense of self at any point.

In the LRP, you are probably below Tiphareth, so this is as it should be.

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I haven't experimented with the Therion-Nuit SR yet.

I used it extensively for a while, then found it expedient to move on to the version in 333. I don't recall whether I ever found the Thelemic Ruby satisfactory.

Satyr

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2019, 09:56:23 PM »
Surgo recently noted that the original instructions for the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram do not include the “Sign of the Enterer”. This is technically true, but in Liber O, in the instructions for the LRP, we are told [Section IV, 1(vi)] to

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Say (i.e. vibrate)

the first god name, then each of the other god names in turn. And the instructions for vibrating god names [Sec III, 3, et seq] clearly employ the “Enterer”, albeit without calling it by name.

paragate

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2019, 11:09:59 PM »
Speaking of Liber O, the instructions for vibrating godnames puts a lot of emphasis on strain in a similar vein to Liber E. Is this more valid than his yoga instructions or is it a product of that period of his writing?

Nubti

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Re: Ceremonial Magic 101
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2019, 08:47:45 AM »
And the instructions for vibrating god names [Sec III, 3, et seq] clearly employ the “Enterer”, albeit without calling it by name.

Interesting indeed. I never made the connection.

In the LBRP it says "Say (i.e. vibrate)". Does this mean both are fine? Or is the sign of the Enterer a necessity?

I always treated the pentagrams themselves as the 'portal' through which the forces can enter, rather than anything else.

It also occurs to me that we don't have particular forms (「stands」?) for the Abrahamic Gods. It's rather strange that one would mix Horus in with all those, in my mind.